Comments on: Pecunix Goes After HYIP Ponzi Scams http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/ "Lack of money is the root of all evil" (George Bernard Shaw) Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:59:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: admin http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-1001 admin Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:44:00 +0000 http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-1001 Interesting idea...a bit "outside the box" The problem is that if you remove the deceptive element out of the game nobody would want to play. I mean who in their right mind would get in on something knowing that they're paying into the pockets of someone who joined earlier. The whole game becomes a matter of who gets in first. One cannot sanely compare HYIPs with other forms of gambling. There are elements of uncertainty and lack of control that are no present with traditional gambling. Interesting idea…a bit “outside the box” The problem is that if you remove the deceptive element out of the game nobody would want to play. I mean who in their right mind would get in on something knowing that they’re paying into the pockets of someone who joined earlier. The whole game becomes a matter of who gets in first. One cannot sanely compare HYIPs with other forms of gambling. There are elements of uncertainty and lack of control that are no present with traditional gambling.

]]> By: David http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-1000 David Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:36:58 +0000 http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-1000 another addition: Why not implement a pyramid gambling account watch instead of this warning? For a fee Pecunix could check and guarantee no money have been removed from the game except for specified fees .... now that would be a great solution! another addition:
Why not implement a pyramid gambling account watch instead of this warning? For a fee Pecunix could check and guarantee no money have been removed from the game except for specified fees …. now that would be a great solution!

]]> By: David http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-999 David Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:34:16 +0000 http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-999 an addition: HYIPs ofcourse have the problem that they use missleading information. It's all bogus. However there have been many very successful gold games as well. Payout schemes working as hyips but in no place referring to what they are doing as "investing" .... just "this is a game", "consider it as gambling" etc. Such games are fun to play and it is tragic that they are illegal attracting so many admins that will run with the money or at least take a lot more "fees" then they claim... an addition:
HYIPs ofcourse have the problem that they use missleading information. It’s all bogus.

However there have been many very successful gold games as well. Payout schemes working as hyips but in no place referring to what they are doing as “investing” …. just “this is a game”, “consider it as gambling” etc.

Such games are fun to play and it is tragic that they are illegal attracting so many admins that will run with the money or at least take a lot more “fees” then they claim…

]]> By: David http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-998 David Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:29:15 +0000 http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-998 Yes most HYIPs are scams but the gambling argument is valid. Ponzi schemes could be a perfectly valid form of gambling, it is fun to ride the pyramid! Unfortunately it is ILLEGAL everywhere and like all things illegal only criminals do it... If it was a legal form of gambling it could be done in a much different way. There could be oversight structures in the market making sure admins don't run with the money but really play the scheme until it collapses. The necessity of complete anonymity for all that the illegality of it implements of course makes it very attractive to scammers. Yes most HYIPs are scams but the gambling argument is valid. Ponzi schemes could be a perfectly valid form of gambling, it is fun to ride the pyramid!

Unfortunately it is ILLEGAL everywhere and like all things illegal only criminals do it…

If it was a legal form of gambling it could be done in a much different way. There could be oversight structures in the market making sure admins don’t run with the money but really play the scheme until it collapses.

The necessity of complete anonymity for all that the illegality of it implements of course makes it very attractive to scammers.

]]> By: admin http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-119 admin Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:21:05 +0000 http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-119 Well Ima, I bet there are some naive people out there who don't know the real nature of HYIPs. While you are right about playing with HYIPs as a form of gambling I think we should be aware that there is a clear difference between the traditional form of gambling (casino, games of chance) and HYIPs. When you play at a casino say for example you are playing against odds (set by the casino in their favour of course) which apply to everyone. With a HYIP the odds are continually in flux and in fact change according to the admin's whims. The admin could decide to shut down a HYIP and run with the money two days after launching it. So I ask you, what is the point of gambling in this sense. I think it is utterly stupid to play such a game when the odds are so stacked against you and so unpredictable that you might as well take your chances with standing in a field in the middle of a thunderstorm holding a golf club and see if you get hit by lightning - even that is a bit more predictable with static odds, gambling with a HYIP is totally unpredictable because of the human element. Another problem that I have with HYIPs is the moral issue that comes about when your gains come at the expense of someone else's loss. HYIP gambling is a zero-sum game. As for your solution to educate people. Don't you think that if everyone was educated HYIPs wouldn't even exist, as obviously no sane person would willingly submit to such scams. The problem really comes down to people wanting to profit at the expense of some else, pure and simple! It is a form of financial predation. The currency used for a Ponzi scam is not important, what's important is the structure it has. In fact I noticed that now a lot of HYIPs ar moving to e-currencies which are based on CASH. Heck, you know what, we can setup a HYIP based on pebbles. At the end of the whole mess the majority of the people will end up with fewer pebbles or none at all, and the admin with nearly all of them. Don't get me started on how even the so called "legitimate monetary system" is a fraud and a massive scam (far greater than any HYIP), but I'll leave that for another time as it would be unrelated to the topic at hand. Another thing came to me. You say that the key to these HYIPs is getting in early, but exactly how late is too late? How do you know when is the good time to get in. Is it good to get in a few days, weeks, or months after a HYIP got started? If you think about that a little bit more you'll see that such a "get in early" scenario leads to a diminishing curve which eventually goes to 0. Yes, it seems that all who get in even a bit past 0 seconds have lost the game already. This scenario comes about beacause you NEVER know when the admin will shut down the program. If you knew then things would be different, then obviously you can figure out if you got in too late. I guess one way to tell is to go by the length of the "investment" term, but still even then you can be tricked and the admin could just decide that he's going to show you who is in control and how much of a fool you were for thinking that you will get 2.5% for 180 days and run with the money at day 160. You know what's funny (actually more like tragically funny), some programs disappeared with the money at day 179!! I'm sure this happens quite often, but then again I am no expert as I don't play such games. My suggestion to you if you like to gamble is learn to play poker or some other traditional gambling game where at least you have a bit of control over the odds or at least know the odds to a reasonable extent. I hope you all can make sense of what I said, I haven't had much sleep lately and my mind is a bit muddy. So in conclusion: Ponzi Scams = bad....naught naughty scammers! Pecunix decision = good...let them start ponzi scams with cash or stones... Well Ima, I bet there are some naive people out there who don’t know the real nature of HYIPs.

While you are right about playing with HYIPs as a form of gambling I think we should be aware that there is a clear difference between the traditional form of gambling (casino, games of chance) and HYIPs. When you play at a casino say for example you are playing against odds (set by the casino in their favour of course) which apply to everyone. With a HYIP the odds are continually in flux and in fact change according to the admin’s whims. The admin could decide to shut down a HYIP and run with the money two days after launching it. So I ask you, what is the point of gambling in this sense. I think it is utterly stupid to play such a game when the odds are so stacked against you and so unpredictable that you might as well take your chances with standing in a field in the middle of a thunderstorm holding a golf club and see if you get hit by lightning - even that is a bit more predictable with static odds, gambling with a HYIP is totally unpredictable because of the human element.

Another problem that I have with HYIPs is the moral issue that comes about when your gains come at the expense of someone else’s loss. HYIP gambling is a zero-sum game.

As for your solution to educate people. Don’t you think that if everyone was educated HYIPs wouldn’t even exist, as obviously no sane person would willingly submit to such scams. The problem really comes down to people wanting to profit at the expense of some else, pure and simple! It is a form of financial predation.

The currency used for a Ponzi scam is not important, what’s important is the structure it has. In fact I noticed that now a lot of HYIPs ar moving to e-currencies which are based on CASH. Heck, you know what, we can setup a HYIP based on pebbles. At the end of the whole mess the majority of the people will end up with fewer pebbles or none at all, and the admin with nearly all of them.

Don’t get me started on how even the so called “legitimate monetary system” is a fraud and a massive scam (far greater than any HYIP), but I’ll leave that for another time as it would be unrelated to the topic at hand.

Another thing came to me. You say that the key to these HYIPs is getting in early, but exactly how late is too late? How do you know when is the good time to get in. Is it good to get in a few days, weeks, or months after a HYIP got started? If you think about that a little bit more you’ll see that such a “get in early” scenario leads to a diminishing curve which eventually goes to 0. Yes, it seems that all who get in even a bit past 0 seconds have lost the game already. This scenario comes about beacause you NEVER know when the admin will shut down the program. If you knew then things would be different, then obviously you can figure out if you got in too late. I guess one way to tell is to go by the length of the “investment” term, but still even then you can be tricked and the admin could just decide that he’s going to show you who is in control and how much of a fool you were for thinking that you will get 2.5% for 180 days and run with the money at day 160. You know what’s funny (actually more like tragically funny), some programs disappeared with the money at day 179!! I’m sure this happens quite often, but then again I am no expert as I don’t play such games.

My suggestion to you if you like to gamble is learn to play poker or some other traditional gambling game where at least you have a bit of control over the odds or at least know the odds to a reasonable extent.

I hope you all can make sense of what I said, I haven’t had much sleep lately and my mind is a bit muddy.

So in conclusion:

Ponzi Scams = bad….naught naughty scammers!
Pecunix decision = good…let them start ponzi scams with cash or stones…

]]> By: Ima http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-118 Ima Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:12:13 +0000 http://alansmoneyblog.com/2007/10/11/pecunix-goes-after-hyip-ponzi-scams/#comment-118 I wonder if anyone who ''invests'' in a HYIP doesn't know that it is a Ponzi? They just hope they are getting in in the early days before it implodes. What's the difference between that and any other form of gambling. It's just as much fun to see if you can beat the odds. Personally I don't find anything wrong with HYIPs. The solution is education. Don't shut down the entire incremental comodity ownership programs because of who or how they are used. I wonder what the powers that be would do if Cash were used for HYIPs - shut down the Secy of Treasury for running a system that is used by Child Pornergraphers (Had to throw that in - it's the new millenium's method of demonizing whowever yopu want to attack.) and HYIPs? I wonder if anyone who ”invests” in a HYIP doesn’t know that it is a Ponzi? They just hope they are getting in in the early days before it implodes. What’s the difference between that and any other form of gambling. It’s just as much fun to see if you can beat the odds.

Personally I don’t find anything wrong with HYIPs. The solution is education. Don’t shut down the entire incremental comodity ownership programs because of who or how they are used.

I wonder what the powers that be would do if Cash were used for HYIPs - shut down the Secy of Treasury for running a system that is used by Child Pornergraphers (Had to throw that in - it’s the new millenium’s method of demonizing whowever yopu want to attack.) and HYIPs?

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